Jervis used his Standard Bearer coumn this month to talk about narrative gaming.
It was an interesting piece that boiled down to if you personalise your army, then over time a narrative will develop, and you will have many happy memories. All very nice, all very fluffy, and designed to make WAAC Tournament types froth at the mouth.
I was particularly interested to see that one of the minions in the Wizard's Tower in Lenton keeps a diary of his armies exploits. I did this ages ago, and happened to come across it when moving house. I'm not saying it was an historical document of great import but it was heart warming to read of the various expliots I had, across various periods and systems. But then I like the charts that you get at the end of a game of Civilisation.
Jervis does have a point though.
I recall a game with my Woodies in which an Alter Kindred fought three rounds of combat against shadow warriors and a mage who kept refusing the challenge. The combat drew in a unit of Elven archers, but still my hero fought on, only to fluff his attacks at the very last moment, lose his nerve, and get run down. I can't say the memory would be more vivid if I had named though.
The problem I have with Jervis saying thi,s is that if one reads the fluff GW produces one wonders when they will do the same.
For instance take the Orks. I am struggling to think of Black Library novel that has the Orks as anything more than a metaphor for the heroism of the Space Marines.
Or take the Ork codex. Why anyone after reading the fluff would think they could build an army that is anything other than a bunch of losers is beyond me. Every single campaign they highl;ight to get you enthused about the army you are about to build ends in failure.
I understand that naturally we are supposed to take the Human side in the fluff, but it would be nice if the other races were explored as something more than psychotic. Or indeed there was a nod toward what might be described as the civilising virtues. For instance Bretonia is painted as a land of heroic knights standing up for forces of good - yet the reality is that they are more akin to the kind of historical masturbation that so appealed to Himler.
Oh I understand we are supposed to be immersed in a world of constant war, but does war really make recognisable virtues disappear so completely? And the fact that people believe in Gods doesn't make the creation stories true. Not to mention that the time lines and history in 40k and WFB is entirely from one perspective - the humans.
I suppose I am risking sounding like Otto, the bus driver in the Simpsons, in wanting something from the Vampires point of view.
But I just feel uncomfortable with the notion that my Ogres are just thoughtless killers that want to eat everything, or that my Orks can't string to words together and their only plan is 'BASH 'EM'.
Of course when one does start wondering about such questions, and indeed verbalising one's hypothesis, it is not long before one runs into the fluff lawyer - who is a character not disimilar to the rules lawyer or the hard core tournie type. The fluff lawyer is very threatened by anything that is outside of the Fluff. I might want to think of my Ogres as being a fusion of Orcs and humans from Cathay caused by warpstone mutation from the asteroid impact, but if that is the case then it best to keep it to myself.... or hint at in in the names I give to the units and the characters for fear of being questioned for heresy, and looked at in a quizzical manner before enduring a lecture on stipling.
peace:)
Saturday, 31 July 2010
Friday, 30 July 2010
Big Names
All week the Mantic blog has been doing a big build up to the announcement about their new ruleset, to complement the expanding figure range.
And so finally we learn who it is that is writing the rules...... Alessio Cavatore.
*Yawn* I can't wait for that - not.
Anywho...
I've been meaning to say how nice it is to hear Scott Steva back podcasting with the Warbanner.. so I will.
I always thought he was great on 40k Radio - he literally made reading the phone book sound interesting. It was a shame that 40k Radio failed to understand the reason for it's success wasn't the drinking and FU attitude but the pleasing combination of personalities - but rather than sift through the ashes of that melt down, let's just focus on the welcome return to broadband airwaves of Scott Steva.
Anywho...
The question I have been mulling over with regard to my Ogres is what sort of army list would I draw up if the book didn't have the restrictions.
For those that don't know, in order to get gnoblars, you have to have bulls, and in order to get scraplaunchers, you have to have gnoblars. And you can't have a slaughtermaster - a level 4 - unless you have a tyrant.
On the plus side it makes the Ogre battalion box excellent value for money.
But the negatives are that these restrictions severely limit the list that can be constructed - not only in terms of figures, but in terms of fluff.
For instance ideally I would like to run four hordes of gnoblars, a death star horde of Iron Guts, three scraplaunchers, big units of leadbelchers, and solo maneaters with pistols but it just isn't possible.
Prior to the 8th edition FAQs the chat on the net was that all the restrictions would be swept away to basically the limitations in the BRB, but for whatever reason it was decided that this shouldn't happen - though one wonders what is going on in the Wizard's Tower in Lenton because Phil Kelly's army that was highlighted on the GW blog and in WD was not possible under the restrictions, which does lead me to hope that the army is being playtested prior to the release of the fabled new book.
Oh and while I think about it, it is rather odd that Ogres are listed as being neutral in terms of allies. Given that currently the only official army that has Ogres is WoC.
I'll leave it there, rather than wishing for a warshrine....
peace:)
And so finally we learn who it is that is writing the rules...... Alessio Cavatore.
*Yawn* I can't wait for that - not.
Anywho...
I've been meaning to say how nice it is to hear Scott Steva back podcasting with the Warbanner.. so I will.
I always thought he was great on 40k Radio - he literally made reading the phone book sound interesting. It was a shame that 40k Radio failed to understand the reason for it's success wasn't the drinking and FU attitude but the pleasing combination of personalities - but rather than sift through the ashes of that melt down, let's just focus on the welcome return to broadband airwaves of Scott Steva.
Anywho...
The question I have been mulling over with regard to my Ogres is what sort of army list would I draw up if the book didn't have the restrictions.
For those that don't know, in order to get gnoblars, you have to have bulls, and in order to get scraplaunchers, you have to have gnoblars. And you can't have a slaughtermaster - a level 4 - unless you have a tyrant.
On the plus side it makes the Ogre battalion box excellent value for money.
But the negatives are that these restrictions severely limit the list that can be constructed - not only in terms of figures, but in terms of fluff.
For instance ideally I would like to run four hordes of gnoblars, a death star horde of Iron Guts, three scraplaunchers, big units of leadbelchers, and solo maneaters with pistols but it just isn't possible.
Prior to the 8th edition FAQs the chat on the net was that all the restrictions would be swept away to basically the limitations in the BRB, but for whatever reason it was decided that this shouldn't happen - though one wonders what is going on in the Wizard's Tower in Lenton because Phil Kelly's army that was highlighted on the GW blog and in WD was not possible under the restrictions, which does lead me to hope that the army is being playtested prior to the release of the fabled new book.
Oh and while I think about it, it is rather odd that Ogres are listed as being neutral in terms of allies. Given that currently the only official army that has Ogres is WoC.
I'll leave it there, rather than wishing for a warshrine....
peace:)
Thursday, 29 July 2010
The True Cost Of A Bargain
I have been thinking about the Island of Blood starter set, which is soon to be released.
Now I know you don't get something for nothing, but when I got tired of WFB last year and decided to start a 40k army I listened to the advice on podcasts and went for the Assualt on Black Reach starter set.... 'its' great value!'... or so Chipley said....
At the time I was torn between an IG army, that I was going to paint as a Police division - I really like the idea of Cadian's with 'Politizei' transfers on their helmets, and Chimeras converted to riot vehicles - a Space Wolf army - because I had read the first Space Wolf trilogy - and a bunch of Orks - well because I have always liked Orks/Orcs.
When I bought the boxset I was still torn between whether to paint the Marines or the Orks. The decision was pretty straight forward once I looked at the figures and my Ork army was born - and in part because I couldn't get my head around the unit construction in a Space Wolf army.
I then got a good deal on the Ork megaforce - which was sweet because whatever else I bought I was going to need 60 boyz as the basis for my army. I have bought various other bits and pieces, and the majority of the army has been painted - but largely it has become a project that has sat on the back burner, and the figures have been waiting patiently in their case.
We'll leave aside for a moment that I did try to sell it on ebay - and I have to admit that I am rather glad that no one was willing to pay my 'reasonable' price.
The problem I have now is that when writing a list, I have a whole bunch of stuff that I don't want.
My current thinking is that I want two battlewagons with a Mek and 4 meganobz in each, two deff dreads, 2 blocks of thirty boyz as my troops, some looted wagons with boom guns, and some fast attack stuff. The trouble is that I have a host of nobs, bikerz, gyrocopters, a warboss, a trukk, and burnaboyz that don't really have a place in my army.
And far from saving me money, by buying the things the way I did, I am in a position in which I will have to spend roughly the same amount that I have already spent in order to get what I want - i.e. I will have to spend twice as much because of my attempted thrift.
Which brings me to the Island of Blood.
I found myself yesterday idly speculating about buying the boxset for the rule book and maybe keeping one or other of the armies when I was reminded of my folly with the Orks. And also reminded that I am not made of money. And then further reminded that High Elves and Skaven are two of my least favourite armies.
When I first played Warhammer getting on for twenty years ago, my regular oponent had High Elves against my Dwarfs. Perhaps it is the grudge bearing Dwarf in me that has kept this passion burning brightly. Yes I know they do compete in every aspect of the game, but they are still High Elves!
And I, perhaps, would consider the Skaven, if only to get to use the Screaming Bell and the warp lighting cannon, but when I went had a look at what I would need to buy in order to get a decent force, and thought of the time it would take to paint, and the reality that were I to go down this path I would be a) inviting madness, and b) once more delaying the army that I really do want - namely Orcs and Goblins.
Well let's just say I pulled myself up short.
We are all well aware of the Crackhammer nature of the hobby - and how easy it is to get sidetracked between projects - but sometimes one does need to find some focus.
Right - focus.... repeat after me 'I am going to buy nothing more from the Island of Blood set than the rulebook on ebay....'
And after the Ogres are finished and I am given say relaease from child care to play them, the next task is to get on with the Orks.
Oh and while I think about it.
Last week I ordered some steel paper from Products for Wargamers along with some magnets from Maelstrom - the magnets were out of stock - oh and it may or may not be of relevance to the story that money had to be transfered into paypal to pay for the steel paper. Anywho... the magnets duely arrived but no steel paper. So after paranoidly checking that I had given the correct address, I emailed to enquire if the order had been sent. They said it had. So I emailed back to make sure there was a proof of postage etc should I have to make a claim for lost post. As with the way of these things, this morning the package arrived.
I mention this more as an anecdote regarding the ineffable law that post always arrives the day after you contact to find out where it is - or not in the case of post that is lost (but that breaks the rule and spoils my moral tale).
oh and the steel paper is excellent and I would heartily recommend both retailers.
peace:)
Now I know you don't get something for nothing, but when I got tired of WFB last year and decided to start a 40k army I listened to the advice on podcasts and went for the Assualt on Black Reach starter set.... 'its' great value!'... or so Chipley said....
At the time I was torn between an IG army, that I was going to paint as a Police division - I really like the idea of Cadian's with 'Politizei' transfers on their helmets, and Chimeras converted to riot vehicles - a Space Wolf army - because I had read the first Space Wolf trilogy - and a bunch of Orks - well because I have always liked Orks/Orcs.
When I bought the boxset I was still torn between whether to paint the Marines or the Orks. The decision was pretty straight forward once I looked at the figures and my Ork army was born - and in part because I couldn't get my head around the unit construction in a Space Wolf army.
I then got a good deal on the Ork megaforce - which was sweet because whatever else I bought I was going to need 60 boyz as the basis for my army. I have bought various other bits and pieces, and the majority of the army has been painted - but largely it has become a project that has sat on the back burner, and the figures have been waiting patiently in their case.
We'll leave aside for a moment that I did try to sell it on ebay - and I have to admit that I am rather glad that no one was willing to pay my 'reasonable' price.
The problem I have now is that when writing a list, I have a whole bunch of stuff that I don't want.
My current thinking is that I want two battlewagons with a Mek and 4 meganobz in each, two deff dreads, 2 blocks of thirty boyz as my troops, some looted wagons with boom guns, and some fast attack stuff. The trouble is that I have a host of nobs, bikerz, gyrocopters, a warboss, a trukk, and burnaboyz that don't really have a place in my army.
And far from saving me money, by buying the things the way I did, I am in a position in which I will have to spend roughly the same amount that I have already spent in order to get what I want - i.e. I will have to spend twice as much because of my attempted thrift.
Which brings me to the Island of Blood.
I found myself yesterday idly speculating about buying the boxset for the rule book and maybe keeping one or other of the armies when I was reminded of my folly with the Orks. And also reminded that I am not made of money. And then further reminded that High Elves and Skaven are two of my least favourite armies.
When I first played Warhammer getting on for twenty years ago, my regular oponent had High Elves against my Dwarfs. Perhaps it is the grudge bearing Dwarf in me that has kept this passion burning brightly. Yes I know they do compete in every aspect of the game, but they are still High Elves!
And I, perhaps, would consider the Skaven, if only to get to use the Screaming Bell and the warp lighting cannon, but when I went had a look at what I would need to buy in order to get a decent force, and thought of the time it would take to paint, and the reality that were I to go down this path I would be a) inviting madness, and b) once more delaying the army that I really do want - namely Orcs and Goblins.
Well let's just say I pulled myself up short.
We are all well aware of the Crackhammer nature of the hobby - and how easy it is to get sidetracked between projects - but sometimes one does need to find some focus.
Right - focus.... repeat after me 'I am going to buy nothing more from the Island of Blood set than the rulebook on ebay....'
And after the Ogres are finished and I am given say relaease from child care to play them, the next task is to get on with the Orks.
Oh and while I think about it.
Last week I ordered some steel paper from Products for Wargamers along with some magnets from Maelstrom - the magnets were out of stock - oh and it may or may not be of relevance to the story that money had to be transfered into paypal to pay for the steel paper. Anywho... the magnets duely arrived but no steel paper. So after paranoidly checking that I had given the correct address, I emailed to enquire if the order had been sent. They said it had. So I emailed back to make sure there was a proof of postage etc should I have to make a claim for lost post. As with the way of these things, this morning the package arrived.
I mention this more as an anecdote regarding the ineffable law that post always arrives the day after you contact to find out where it is - or not in the case of post that is lost (but that breaks the rule and spoils my moral tale).
oh and the steel paper is excellent and I would heartily recommend both retailers.
peace:)
Wednesday, 28 July 2010
8th Edition - A Pathfinder For Communism
I realise that it is difficult for tournament players to understand that Warhammer exists outside of Rankings HQ, or indeed that they are rather a minor element in the hobby, but if we are to believe Jervis Johnson and his Standard Bearer column that is indeed the case.
If further proof were needed - and indeed you had the time and inclination - you might care to tot up the number of players on the Ranking HQ website, and divide that by the sales figures revealed in GW's latest trading results. Unless we are to believe that tournament players are spending - let's guess - £40k (do you see what I did there?) a quarter on the hobby - then we can only assume that Mr Johnson is correct (and why won't he be with his salary in excess of 4000 boxes of Greatswords).
Which is not to say that tournament play is not important, or indeed that the old addage, 'empty vessels make most sound', hold water.
However what shouldn't be ignored is that tournament players are a community like any other, they have a hierachy, friendship bonds, and they are susceptable to group think - just like any other group with a common interest.
I say all this as a prelude, because I notice Dan Heelen - new convert to 8th edition and WAAC player - on his podcast Heelenhammer happened to mention a thread that has been running for a few days on the Warhammer forum about comping 8th edition.
Not to be specific about this. The thread is not a discussion about comping all tournaments everywhere and forever. It is about comping one tournament, that the OP is running and asking for opinions A) about his comp - which is basically to tone down the magic and reaign in stuff like the Hydra - and B) if people have any suggestions about what he should comp further.
Mr Heelan, being 'all about the hobby' - and pretty much a group thinker (like any convert) got this completely ars.... no wait there are potentially Americans reading this... back to front, and started banging on about how it was too early to comp 8th (group think).
Leaving aside the specifics of the various arguments - that you can read here - an offshoot of this discusson was a suggestion that the tournament organisers should write the lists - which in turn started a thread that you can read here.
If you lay aside your MacCarthyite electrodes for a moment, this is a suggestion that does have some merit. And funnily enough responders generally agree with this sentiment - obviously there are issues with it, such as people might be left with figures they never get to use (which happens now if you happen to buy stuff that is sub optimal or not min max), who will decide the balance of the armies (like anyone does now), it undermines people's right to play what they want (which is perhaps the weakest argument of all, because non comp does that already - exclusing whole army books). And this approach has one massive advantage over all comp systems. If it turns out that one army is winning everything - no matter who is playing it - you don't have to wait for a new army book, you just have to tweek the list/lists - which would be more effective than comp because there is no way around a set list in a way there is around comp.
What people have yet to grasp - and it is something they need to grasp before the same old same old becomes the norm again - is that 8th edition offers an opportunty for something new. Just as there is a place for 'Ard Boyz - however distasteful that might be (I'm thinking specifically about not having to paint your figures) - there is surely enough space in the hobby for alternative tournaments, and alternative tournament systems.
Yeah I know I'm pis.... ooops Americans might potentially read this.... spi.... ooops Americans might potentially read this.... I'm wishlisting, but it doesn't mean that it can't or won't happen.
After all there is a vast resevoir of gamers who are not involved in tournaments - for any number of reasons - but they might go for campaign weekends, or structured scenario gaming or indeed anything other than the soulless search for ways to bump up your plastic pen.... oooops Americans might read this.... member.
peace:)
If further proof were needed - and indeed you had the time and inclination - you might care to tot up the number of players on the Ranking HQ website, and divide that by the sales figures revealed in GW's latest trading results. Unless we are to believe that tournament players are spending - let's guess - £40k (do you see what I did there?) a quarter on the hobby - then we can only assume that Mr Johnson is correct (and why won't he be with his salary in excess of 4000 boxes of Greatswords).
Which is not to say that tournament play is not important, or indeed that the old addage, 'empty vessels make most sound', hold water.
However what shouldn't be ignored is that tournament players are a community like any other, they have a hierachy, friendship bonds, and they are susceptable to group think - just like any other group with a common interest.
I say all this as a prelude, because I notice Dan Heelen - new convert to 8th edition and WAAC player - on his podcast Heelenhammer happened to mention a thread that has been running for a few days on the Warhammer forum about comping 8th edition.
Not to be specific about this. The thread is not a discussion about comping all tournaments everywhere and forever. It is about comping one tournament, that the OP is running and asking for opinions A) about his comp - which is basically to tone down the magic and reaign in stuff like the Hydra - and B) if people have any suggestions about what he should comp further.
Mr Heelan, being 'all about the hobby' - and pretty much a group thinker (like any convert) got this completely ars.... no wait there are potentially Americans reading this... back to front, and started banging on about how it was too early to comp 8th (group think).
Leaving aside the specifics of the various arguments - that you can read here - an offshoot of this discusson was a suggestion that the tournament organisers should write the lists - which in turn started a thread that you can read here.
If you lay aside your MacCarthyite electrodes for a moment, this is a suggestion that does have some merit. And funnily enough responders generally agree with this sentiment - obviously there are issues with it, such as people might be left with figures they never get to use (which happens now if you happen to buy stuff that is sub optimal or not min max), who will decide the balance of the armies (like anyone does now), it undermines people's right to play what they want (which is perhaps the weakest argument of all, because non comp does that already - exclusing whole army books). And this approach has one massive advantage over all comp systems. If it turns out that one army is winning everything - no matter who is playing it - you don't have to wait for a new army book, you just have to tweek the list/lists - which would be more effective than comp because there is no way around a set list in a way there is around comp.
What people have yet to grasp - and it is something they need to grasp before the same old same old becomes the norm again - is that 8th edition offers an opportunty for something new. Just as there is a place for 'Ard Boyz - however distasteful that might be (I'm thinking specifically about not having to paint your figures) - there is surely enough space in the hobby for alternative tournaments, and alternative tournament systems.
Yeah I know I'm pis.... ooops Americans might potentially read this.... spi.... ooops Americans might potentially read this.... I'm wishlisting, but it doesn't mean that it can't or won't happen.
After all there is a vast resevoir of gamers who are not involved in tournaments - for any number of reasons - but they might go for campaign weekends, or structured scenario gaming or indeed anything other than the soulless search for ways to bump up your plastic pen.... oooops Americans might read this.... member.
peace:)
Tuesday, 27 July 2010
Broken Back
So I have finished - well in so far as I have finsihed any of the units...
Ok I have completed stage 1 of 12 Iron Guts.
Which means that the army is practically finished to a stage when I can go and play - all I need to do now is a unit of 6 Bulls, the scrappies, the gnoblars (not sure how many there are because there arer 24 in the box, but I have a load of others that will be split between the scrappy and bulking out the unit), a butcher and 2 gorgers.
Which reminds me....
Leadbelchers
a blurry Tyrant
Maneaters
the gnoblars....
Yeah yeah - I know - I should work out this blog's columns and set up the pictures properly....
Oh and I should have dug out the camera and took some snaps of the Iron Guts - and of the stuff I want to sell on ebay - but fat chance when you have a toddler and new born tag teaming for mummy's attention.
The problem I find myself with now is that 12 Iron Guts just look the bee's knees, but it means that the list I have been working on is going to have to loose stuff that I really what to keep.
peace:)
Ok I have completed stage 1 of 12 Iron Guts.
Which means that the army is practically finished to a stage when I can go and play - all I need to do now is a unit of 6 Bulls, the scrappies, the gnoblars (not sure how many there are because there arer 24 in the box, but I have a load of others that will be split between the scrappy and bulking out the unit), a butcher and 2 gorgers.
Which reminds me....
Leadbelchers
a blurry Tyrant
Maneaters
the gnoblars....
Yeah yeah - I know - I should work out this blog's columns and set up the pictures properly....
Oh and I should have dug out the camera and took some snaps of the Iron Guts - and of the stuff I want to sell on ebay - but fat chance when you have a toddler and new born tag teaming for mummy's attention.
The problem I find myself with now is that 12 Iron Guts just look the bee's knees, but it means that the list I have been working on is going to have to loose stuff that I really what to keep.
peace:)
Monday, 26 July 2010
Only Cheats Need Apply
Listening to SoCal Radio I have learned a new expression, 'ruining someone's hobby.'
And while I am not in a position yet of having my hobby ruined, I am in a position of agreeing with Jean Paul Satre that 'Hell is other people'.
Now let's be clear I love my BRB, and I am very happy with the way my ogres are coming along, and I am looking forward to playing them - especially as the missus has given me permission to go and play games again after the birth of our recent child - but I am coming to the conclusion that working for GW, and writing for WFB must be about the worst job in the world.
It seems that WFB players boil down into two camps - obsessives and cheats. They are pretty distinct groups though the Venn diagram does cross in the centre to create the competition gamer.
Now I don't know about you but the first thing I didn't do when I got the new rules was to sit down and think, 'what's the stoopidest thing that I can come up with in order to cheat?'
But it seems that is precisely what some people have been up to.
The latest ruse to reach the internut is a 'tactic' of placing cannons behind a unit to give them -2 to hit for being in hard cover. Of course this also gives their target a -2 to hit, for being in hard cover - but because of the way cannons fire this is irrelevant - woopdy-blooming-doo.
Of course there is no point in trying to point out that in reality the cannon would blow up the troops in front, because the response will come back that this is not reality, but a magical universe in which RAW rules.... blah, blah, blah....
More humourously are the people who try and defend this cheating by saying that it works in 40k. And yes it probably does work in 40k, except in 40k ,this gives a cover save to the enemy, so people wouldn't do it because there is a consequence.
On a positive note it has re-ignited my interest in getting on with my 40k army, and have gone so far as digging out my codex and reading it again. Not least because for all my excitement about 8th edition, it does have to be said that 40k is a better rules system - and 8th edition, whilst a massive improvement on 7th, is so badly written that it's going to take months of FAQ's to sort out the game and properly iron out the exploits to make it the well balanced and fun game that it intends to be.
peace:)
And while I am not in a position yet of having my hobby ruined, I am in a position of agreeing with Jean Paul Satre that 'Hell is other people'.
Now let's be clear I love my BRB, and I am very happy with the way my ogres are coming along, and I am looking forward to playing them - especially as the missus has given me permission to go and play games again after the birth of our recent child - but I am coming to the conclusion that working for GW, and writing for WFB must be about the worst job in the world.
It seems that WFB players boil down into two camps - obsessives and cheats. They are pretty distinct groups though the Venn diagram does cross in the centre to create the competition gamer.
Now I don't know about you but the first thing I didn't do when I got the new rules was to sit down and think, 'what's the stoopidest thing that I can come up with in order to cheat?'
But it seems that is precisely what some people have been up to.
The latest ruse to reach the internut is a 'tactic' of placing cannons behind a unit to give them -2 to hit for being in hard cover. Of course this also gives their target a -2 to hit, for being in hard cover - but because of the way cannons fire this is irrelevant - woopdy-blooming-doo.
Of course there is no point in trying to point out that in reality the cannon would blow up the troops in front, because the response will come back that this is not reality, but a magical universe in which RAW rules.... blah, blah, blah....
More humourously are the people who try and defend this cheating by saying that it works in 40k. And yes it probably does work in 40k, except in 40k ,this gives a cover save to the enemy, so people wouldn't do it because there is a consequence.
On a positive note it has re-ignited my interest in getting on with my 40k army, and have gone so far as digging out my codex and reading it again. Not least because for all my excitement about 8th edition, it does have to be said that 40k is a better rules system - and 8th edition, whilst a massive improvement on 7th, is so badly written that it's going to take months of FAQ's to sort out the game and properly iron out the exploits to make it the well balanced and fun game that it intends to be.
peace:)
Sunday, 25 July 2010
Seeing Through The Long Grass
The internut is awash with lamentations about the new terrain in 8th edition.
The gripes boil down to bascially two moans.
The first is that woods and hills no longer block LoS - or more precisely the woods and hills currently being used, and the GW woods and hills in particular, don't block LoS. And the second is the way in which the new chaotic terrain works in 8th.
My hunch is that is simply new system nerves, and that given time people will come up with terrain that gets around the currently catatonic paralysis.
Though I also have a hunch that in fact the moaning demostrates nothing so much as that the new rules are actually working as intended.
The gripes about hills and woods demostrate nothing more than in 7th these were pretty much the only terrain - apart from open ground - that was commonly used. And the game had developed, and the terrain deployment rules actually encouraged, into a formalised battlefield in which terrain was pushed to the sides, except for the standard hill in the deployment zone of armies using warmachines.
In short terrain playing very little part in game - except in a totally weird way with the infinitely high hill.
Now suddenly players have to consider how to use terrian to their advantage - or indeed don't have their tactical plan completely ruined by the terrain.
In short the new game is a genuine test of generalship, in a way that 7th just wasn't.
peace:)
The gripes boil down to bascially two moans.
The first is that woods and hills no longer block LoS - or more precisely the woods and hills currently being used, and the GW woods and hills in particular, don't block LoS. And the second is the way in which the new chaotic terrain works in 8th.
My hunch is that is simply new system nerves, and that given time people will come up with terrain that gets around the currently catatonic paralysis.
Though I also have a hunch that in fact the moaning demostrates nothing so much as that the new rules are actually working as intended.
The gripes about hills and woods demostrate nothing more than in 7th these were pretty much the only terrain - apart from open ground - that was commonly used. And the game had developed, and the terrain deployment rules actually encouraged, into a formalised battlefield in which terrain was pushed to the sides, except for the standard hill in the deployment zone of armies using warmachines.
In short terrain playing very little part in game - except in a totally weird way with the infinitely high hill.
Now suddenly players have to consider how to use terrian to their advantage - or indeed don't have their tactical plan completely ruined by the terrain.
In short the new game is a genuine test of generalship, in a way that 7th just wasn't.
peace:)
Saturday, 24 July 2010
Lost In Translation - With Consciousness
Following on from my thread about forums...
The madness continues, with regard to what constitutes direct and indirect fire with a stonethrower.
My current favourite piece of idiocy is this:
"Is there actually a rule that says:"if firing at a specific model, the template is centred on that figure - "
The statement: "the hole in the middle of the template must be placed over a single model"
Includes no requirment to center the template."
Maybe there should be a website that collects these gems and awards prizes in much the same way as the Darwin Awards.
btw, it is surely no conicidence that the numpty spells center in the American fashion.... lol....
peace:)
The madness continues, with regard to what constitutes direct and indirect fire with a stonethrower.
My current favourite piece of idiocy is this:
"Is there actually a rule that says:"if firing at a specific model, the template is centred on that figure - "
The statement: "the hole in the middle of the template must be placed over a single model"
Includes no requirment to center the template."
Maybe there should be a website that collects these gems and awards prizes in much the same way as the Darwin Awards.
btw, it is surely no conicidence that the numpty spells center in the American fashion.... lol....
peace:)
Friday, 23 July 2010
The Impossibility of Reason
Let's face it one of the great thing about wargaming is rules lawyering.
I do it, everyone does it, it's part of the game.
And a sub genre of rules lawyering is forumhammer - other games systems have rules lawyering too but forumhammer is such a good phrase it is a shame to waste it.
Listening to the Gamers Lounge podcast they had a recent discussion about how they increasingly don't use forums, prefering instead to read blogs. Having been a blogger for about 7 or 8 years now, I found myself being slightly skeptical of some of their reasoning - not least because when all is said and done I do kinda like forums.
However over the past couple of days I can well understand why anyone who values their time and sanity would prefer a blog to the kind of discussion one gets on a forum.
Now let's face it, a lot of people use forums simply to be argumentative - e-peening I believe is the word. And much of what passes for informed comment is simply recycled nonsense - Americans are particularly bad with this regard, it never ceases to amaze me how quickly something appearing on BoLS gets spewed around the internut as if it is gospel truth.
Just such a gobbit of crap is the notion that 8th edition is poorly written, and unsuitable for competative play. This was being spread around long before the book ever appeared. And frankly must be music to GW's ears, since they as a company they have always said that they don't produce games for tournaments, and that the hobby is wider than the narrowness that the 'competative' naturally imposes.
Which brings me to this discussion I have been engaged in.
Let me ask you this question, Do you understand the difference between direct and indirect fire?
You do, good - put it this way I asked the missus who is not ill informed about wargaming, she is best described as mildly interested, and she knew.
Therefore because you understand the concept, do you therefore require a legalistic description, probably running to several paragraphs, covering every exemption and possibility? If you understand the concept then surely the answer is no.
Nurse wheel in the numpties.
This is the wording for direct fire from a stonethrower in 8th edition...
"To fire a stone thrower, take the small round (3") template and place it anywhere completely within the war machine's line of sight, outside of the stone thrower's minimum range and within its maximum range."
One thing to note straight away that this is not a rule, but a description of how the rule works.
According to the society for the Terminally Stoopid this means variously, that by placing the template anywhere above the table, so that a LoS can be traced to it, it is possible to shoot directly at any target - that all targets are indirect because the the models temselves are blocking LoS between the template and a nominal impact site on the table - that the model cannot fire unless the template is tilted towards the warmachine when determining casualties in order that the entire template is in LoS to the crew - that the warmachine cannot fire because the 'rule' says to place the template anywhere, and that whereever you place it, it will be somewhere and somewhere and anywhere are not the same thing - that you can't place it on a unit unless all of the potential casualties are in LoS to the firing unit - there were others....
The problem I have with all of this is that when trying to pick through this nonsense and explain the reality - that you pick a spot in LoS, place the template calculate the damage and move on - and the reason for the word completely is because if firing at a model the template is centred on that figure and that it is possible for a figure to be partially visible - i.e the tip of the base, a foot, a sword, wings etc - and therefore by using this partial, you would be converting an indirect shot, with a greater chance of scatter, into a direct shot, with less chance - how hard is that to grasp? - it was necessary to refer to over rules, such as LoS, the rules for templates etc.
Apparently in the world of Terminally Stoopid using the rulebook as it is meant to be used - i.e. creating a logical framework in which various rules are used to make sense of a situation - is called 'making up your own rules' - apparently the rulebook is not intended to be used in such a fashion - rather players are expected to select and dissect words and phrases in isolation and then create metaphysical reasons and situtions as to how the rules work - none of which would ever be used in real life, because the opponent would simply call them a cheat/twat and have them thrown out of a tournament if they tried it at such an event.
What is even more laughable is that supposedly this is an FAQ.
Which I guess explains why whenever there is an FAQ there are always those questions that you look at and think,'who the fuck wanted to know the answer to that?'
I guess we now know the answer - no one.
The problem is that forums do have a role in game design because the developers at GW do check them out - so the more idiotic you are the more likely it is that you moronic viewpoint will be reflected in GW's thinking, if only in their FAQ's.
btw - perhaps the most amusing thing to come out of this discussion was when one of the chief literalists - and an legend in his own bedroom (no doubt) - claimed that a toe is part of the leg and is therefore subject to LoS. Here is somone who claims that for metaphysical reasons a stone thrower cannot shoot - and we are not talking Thomas Aqinus's maths here - yet does not see the irony of being able to shoot a toe, because it is part of the leg (no doubt some genetic experiment), and yet not the wings, because GW specifically exclude them. I realise the Warhammer World reality si slightly warped, but I suspect being hit on the toe whilst walking is rather less dangerous than being shot through the wings whilst flying - or put another way - 'Look at that peacock, shoot it in the toe, because we can't hit the wings'
I'm not saying blogs are better than forums - but I do know one thing, that blogs don't trade in the same kind of bullshit for long and hope to keep readers.
peace:)
I do it, everyone does it, it's part of the game.
And a sub genre of rules lawyering is forumhammer - other games systems have rules lawyering too but forumhammer is such a good phrase it is a shame to waste it.
Listening to the Gamers Lounge podcast they had a recent discussion about how they increasingly don't use forums, prefering instead to read blogs. Having been a blogger for about 7 or 8 years now, I found myself being slightly skeptical of some of their reasoning - not least because when all is said and done I do kinda like forums.
However over the past couple of days I can well understand why anyone who values their time and sanity would prefer a blog to the kind of discussion one gets on a forum.
Now let's face it, a lot of people use forums simply to be argumentative - e-peening I believe is the word. And much of what passes for informed comment is simply recycled nonsense - Americans are particularly bad with this regard, it never ceases to amaze me how quickly something appearing on BoLS gets spewed around the internut as if it is gospel truth.
Just such a gobbit of crap is the notion that 8th edition is poorly written, and unsuitable for competative play. This was being spread around long before the book ever appeared. And frankly must be music to GW's ears, since they as a company they have always said that they don't produce games for tournaments, and that the hobby is wider than the narrowness that the 'competative' naturally imposes.
Which brings me to this discussion I have been engaged in.
Let me ask you this question, Do you understand the difference between direct and indirect fire?
You do, good - put it this way I asked the missus who is not ill informed about wargaming, she is best described as mildly interested, and she knew.
Therefore because you understand the concept, do you therefore require a legalistic description, probably running to several paragraphs, covering every exemption and possibility? If you understand the concept then surely the answer is no.
Nurse wheel in the numpties.
This is the wording for direct fire from a stonethrower in 8th edition...
"To fire a stone thrower, take the small round (3") template and place it anywhere completely within the war machine's line of sight, outside of the stone thrower's minimum range and within its maximum range."
One thing to note straight away that this is not a rule, but a description of how the rule works.
According to the society for the Terminally Stoopid this means variously, that by placing the template anywhere above the table, so that a LoS can be traced to it, it is possible to shoot directly at any target - that all targets are indirect because the the models temselves are blocking LoS between the template and a nominal impact site on the table - that the model cannot fire unless the template is tilted towards the warmachine when determining casualties in order that the entire template is in LoS to the crew - that the warmachine cannot fire because the 'rule' says to place the template anywhere, and that whereever you place it, it will be somewhere and somewhere and anywhere are not the same thing - that you can't place it on a unit unless all of the potential casualties are in LoS to the firing unit - there were others....
The problem I have with all of this is that when trying to pick through this nonsense and explain the reality - that you pick a spot in LoS, place the template calculate the damage and move on - and the reason for the word completely is because if firing at a model the template is centred on that figure and that it is possible for a figure to be partially visible - i.e the tip of the base, a foot, a sword, wings etc - and therefore by using this partial, you would be converting an indirect shot, with a greater chance of scatter, into a direct shot, with less chance - how hard is that to grasp? - it was necessary to refer to over rules, such as LoS, the rules for templates etc.
Apparently in the world of Terminally Stoopid using the rulebook as it is meant to be used - i.e. creating a logical framework in which various rules are used to make sense of a situation - is called 'making up your own rules' - apparently the rulebook is not intended to be used in such a fashion - rather players are expected to select and dissect words and phrases in isolation and then create metaphysical reasons and situtions as to how the rules work - none of which would ever be used in real life, because the opponent would simply call them a cheat/twat and have them thrown out of a tournament if they tried it at such an event.
What is even more laughable is that supposedly this is an FAQ.
Which I guess explains why whenever there is an FAQ there are always those questions that you look at and think,'who the fuck wanted to know the answer to that?'
I guess we now know the answer - no one.
The problem is that forums do have a role in game design because the developers at GW do check them out - so the more idiotic you are the more likely it is that you moronic viewpoint will be reflected in GW's thinking, if only in their FAQ's.
btw - perhaps the most amusing thing to come out of this discussion was when one of the chief literalists - and an legend in his own bedroom (no doubt) - claimed that a toe is part of the leg and is therefore subject to LoS. Here is somone who claims that for metaphysical reasons a stone thrower cannot shoot - and we are not talking Thomas Aqinus's maths here - yet does not see the irony of being able to shoot a toe, because it is part of the leg (no doubt some genetic experiment), and yet not the wings, because GW specifically exclude them. I realise the Warhammer World reality si slightly warped, but I suspect being hit on the toe whilst walking is rather less dangerous than being shot through the wings whilst flying - or put another way - 'Look at that peacock, shoot it in the toe, because we can't hit the wings'
I'm not saying blogs are better than forums - but I do know one thing, that blogs don't trade in the same kind of bullshit for long and hope to keep readers.
peace:)
Friday, 16 July 2010
Male's Having Babies
I'm a contributor to the Ogre Stronghold forum.
And have been having my two-penneth on a thread about the reproductive cycle and sexuality of Ogres. Now we don't need to go into my opinions here - if you are that bothered you can go and find them - it's pretty obvious which contributor I am.
What was frustrating about the discussion at times became stuck in the official fluff.
Sure the fluff is there for a reason, but it should also be kept in mind that it is also flawed, because it is very much focused on retelling the history from a particular perspective, and the supporting material is often bolted onto waht are essentially war stories.
What I find unsatisfactory is the way in which it limits possibilities.
For instance take Ogres.
The Empirecentric view of them as stupid and violent, intent on nothing more than murder and eating their victims. Yet at the same time Maneaters are said to be Ogres who have lived and fought in various lands throughout the known the world. Surely their is a contradiction here.
I'm not sure what the answer is exactly - the obvious would be for Black Library to support new writers, who want to explore the world in a way that their range of books do not at present.
But more than anything I would ask that people not use human norms and biology as the starting point for races that clearly not human.
peace:)
And have been having my two-penneth on a thread about the reproductive cycle and sexuality of Ogres. Now we don't need to go into my opinions here - if you are that bothered you can go and find them - it's pretty obvious which contributor I am.
What was frustrating about the discussion at times became stuck in the official fluff.
Sure the fluff is there for a reason, but it should also be kept in mind that it is also flawed, because it is very much focused on retelling the history from a particular perspective, and the supporting material is often bolted onto waht are essentially war stories.
What I find unsatisfactory is the way in which it limits possibilities.
For instance take Ogres.
The Empirecentric view of them as stupid and violent, intent on nothing more than murder and eating their victims. Yet at the same time Maneaters are said to be Ogres who have lived and fought in various lands throughout the known the world. Surely their is a contradiction here.
I'm not sure what the answer is exactly - the obvious would be for Black Library to support new writers, who want to explore the world in a way that their range of books do not at present.
But more than anything I would ask that people not use human norms and biology as the starting point for races that clearly not human.
peace:)
Thursday, 15 July 2010
The Book and The Black
I admit I am high.
My 8th edition rulebook turned up today, and I am rather giddy, in part from the ink fumes. It truely is a magnificent tome. I really like the opening, which sets the tone perfectly for what the game is intended to be, with Matt Ward and Jervis setting up a game - I love the pic of Jervis peeking over the table checking LoS - before shaking hands and going for a pint.
If that isn't a one finger wave to the self important hard core tournament morons who think they run the game, then nothing is.
I's like to say that the lavishly illustrated book is Warhammer porn, but the fact is that it is the exact opposite of porn, because the book genuinely has a soul. Sure it contains the painting stuff, and the collecting stuff, and all the rest that is crammed in to ensure the book achieves it's aim of meeting the needs of the hard core gamer and also the complete newbie - but what this edition does achieve, that previous editions haven't, is that nothing feels like padding - or tacked on. Or indeed put in for the sake of having it there. If anything it feels as if the 500 odd pages was not enough to get in all they wanted to achieve - basically it does feel as if the energy dropped out of the project when they finished the rules. This is not simply a rule book, it is a complete guide to the hobby.
A big thumbs up to GW.
And sure it is pricey - but I certainly don't feel ripped off. I feel like I have got good value.
Of course if the binding gives way after a month I might change my view.
Speaking of which I did have a slight heart attack that the binding had gone when I got to page 462 - 463, igf you have a copy you will kow what I mean.
In other news I have been pushing on with my Ogres.
And to that end I have painted my giant....
Odd isn't it?
A black face in Warhammer.
But wait, it's a slave giant - surely....
Yeah I have had that internal monologue, and indeed I have had a number of other monologues, like should I change the theme of the army to make some kind of political statement - overt political statement - like having Jonny Reb banners, or some sort of adaption of the White Man's Burden - but then I came to my senses and thought 'WTF'.
I wanted a black giant because of the connection between the Ogre Kingdom and the Indus - and indeed I am more than pleased that the skin tone of the giant matches the skin tone of Southern India - the Dravidians - as opposed to black Africans.
Still it is odd how few black faces there are in Warhammer - especially 40k.
I guess time will tell how people react to my black slave giant - or indeed me for having one.
peace:)
My 8th edition rulebook turned up today, and I am rather giddy, in part from the ink fumes. It truely is a magnificent tome. I really like the opening, which sets the tone perfectly for what the game is intended to be, with Matt Ward and Jervis setting up a game - I love the pic of Jervis peeking over the table checking LoS - before shaking hands and going for a pint.
If that isn't a one finger wave to the self important hard core tournament morons who think they run the game, then nothing is.
I's like to say that the lavishly illustrated book is Warhammer porn, but the fact is that it is the exact opposite of porn, because the book genuinely has a soul. Sure it contains the painting stuff, and the collecting stuff, and all the rest that is crammed in to ensure the book achieves it's aim of meeting the needs of the hard core gamer and also the complete newbie - but what this edition does achieve, that previous editions haven't, is that nothing feels like padding - or tacked on. Or indeed put in for the sake of having it there. If anything it feels as if the 500 odd pages was not enough to get in all they wanted to achieve - basically it does feel as if the energy dropped out of the project when they finished the rules. This is not simply a rule book, it is a complete guide to the hobby.
A big thumbs up to GW.
And sure it is pricey - but I certainly don't feel ripped off. I feel like I have got good value.
Of course if the binding gives way after a month I might change my view.
Speaking of which I did have a slight heart attack that the binding had gone when I got to page 462 - 463, igf you have a copy you will kow what I mean.
In other news I have been pushing on with my Ogres.
And to that end I have painted my giant....
Odd isn't it?
A black face in Warhammer.
But wait, it's a slave giant - surely....
Yeah I have had that internal monologue, and indeed I have had a number of other monologues, like should I change the theme of the army to make some kind of political statement - overt political statement - like having Jonny Reb banners, or some sort of adaption of the White Man's Burden - but then I came to my senses and thought 'WTF'.
I wanted a black giant because of the connection between the Ogre Kingdom and the Indus - and indeed I am more than pleased that the skin tone of the giant matches the skin tone of Southern India - the Dravidians - as opposed to black Africans.
Still it is odd how few black faces there are in Warhammer - especially 40k.
I guess time will tell how people react to my black slave giant - or indeed me for having one.
peace:)
Tuesday, 13 July 2010
I'm Free
So finally the payments I was expecting have cleared in Paypal and I was able to finally order my copy of the 8th edition rule book.
Which you would think would be easy, but it seems that the tome has raised a problem for internet sellers - namely that it it so heavy.
One of the stockists I tried, that had been heavily plugged on a certain popular podcast, informed me that they won't be stocking the book in future because the postage costs had been so high that they had lost money selling it.
Whether this is actual money, or projected profit to cover overheads - if you see what I mean - I'm not sure. But it does rather highlight relating to internet selling - especially now that GW are offering free shipping.
Most of the sellers offer a discount of 10% -20% to get traffic to their site. Which then raises the question of how much to charge for shipping. There are some that have gone down the free shipping route - and they must be doing reasonably well since they appear to be registered for VAT - and others have gone down the path of adding a shipping charge - either fixed or flexible - which anyone who has ever sold stuff on ebay will know is a way of avergaing out the postage and covering the costs of selling.
But when GW is offering free shipping and the actual price paid gets ever closer to the RRP, I do wonder what advantage there is buying from these online stores.
I suppose the obviious is that they offer a wider range of products than GW.
For instance I like Vallejo paint, and Newton and Rowley brushes, so it s handy to get everything in one parcel.
Anywho...
I eventually found the rulebook, and bought it at a £5 discount - so I am happy.
Even if I am now left wondering if the retailer has actually lost money on the deal.
peace:)
Which you would think would be easy, but it seems that the tome has raised a problem for internet sellers - namely that it it so heavy.
One of the stockists I tried, that had been heavily plugged on a certain popular podcast, informed me that they won't be stocking the book in future because the postage costs had been so high that they had lost money selling it.
Whether this is actual money, or projected profit to cover overheads - if you see what I mean - I'm not sure. But it does rather highlight relating to internet selling - especially now that GW are offering free shipping.
Most of the sellers offer a discount of 10% -20% to get traffic to their site. Which then raises the question of how much to charge for shipping. There are some that have gone down the free shipping route - and they must be doing reasonably well since they appear to be registered for VAT - and others have gone down the path of adding a shipping charge - either fixed or flexible - which anyone who has ever sold stuff on ebay will know is a way of avergaing out the postage and covering the costs of selling.
But when GW is offering free shipping and the actual price paid gets ever closer to the RRP, I do wonder what advantage there is buying from these online stores.
I suppose the obviious is that they offer a wider range of products than GW.
For instance I like Vallejo paint, and Newton and Rowley brushes, so it s handy to get everything in one parcel.
Anywho...
I eventually found the rulebook, and bought it at a £5 discount - so I am happy.
Even if I am now left wondering if the retailer has actually lost money on the deal.
peace:)
Wednesday, 7 July 2010
Actively Lazy
I haven't been doing much the past few weeks.
In part this is due to the adictive nature of Empire Total War, and in part because I am in a post coital stupor having bought all the figures for my Ogre Army.
It's always a bit of a let down for a gamer when you have finished scanning your army book, writing lists, searching for the best deal, and trying to work out if you are really willing to pay the extra for a whole box set just to get half the figures or whether to just run smaller units or this or that.
Then there is the excitement of wating for the post.
And then it's..... meh... I have got to paint how much?
And now I need a new case....
And.....
Maybe it's the chore of painting that is the let down - not that painting is a chore, I rather like it.
Oh I am a bit annoyed, as I have sold off my vampires and wood elves to finance the Ogres and buy the new rule book - but now I have to wait for a paypal cheque to clear, so I am not going to get the new rules for at least five days after it is released, while I wait for the cheque to clear.
I shouldn't moan really, seeing as we had a new baby a fortnight ago, so perhaps that event might have something to do with my torpor.
Still perhaps things are changing as I glued my giant together, and finished the base coat top coat on the Leadbelchers today, so it might be that Empire fervour is passed and I might get my finger out and get on with stuff.
peace:)
In part this is due to the adictive nature of Empire Total War, and in part because I am in a post coital stupor having bought all the figures for my Ogre Army.
It's always a bit of a let down for a gamer when you have finished scanning your army book, writing lists, searching for the best deal, and trying to work out if you are really willing to pay the extra for a whole box set just to get half the figures or whether to just run smaller units or this or that.
Then there is the excitement of wating for the post.
And then it's..... meh... I have got to paint how much?
And now I need a new case....
And.....
Maybe it's the chore of painting that is the let down - not that painting is a chore, I rather like it.
Oh I am a bit annoyed, as I have sold off my vampires and wood elves to finance the Ogres and buy the new rule book - but now I have to wait for a paypal cheque to clear, so I am not going to get the new rules for at least five days after it is released, while I wait for the cheque to clear.
I shouldn't moan really, seeing as we had a new baby a fortnight ago, so perhaps that event might have something to do with my torpor.
Still perhaps things are changing as I glued my giant together, and finished the base coat top coat on the Leadbelchers today, so it might be that Empire fervour is passed and I might get my finger out and get on with stuff.
peace:)
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